Problem;
I have a email list ot 3000 scientists in Europe who work in my area of research. At the moment I'm working for a charity buliding a Forum type site to allow interchange of information about conferences meetings etc etc.

Three questions:
1] would a web host generaly see a one off email to these guys advising them about the web site as spam i.e its not for commercial gain and its a very targetted group.

2] 3000 emails doesn't seem like a lot to me. I'm sure with a trickle of emails using Mojo Mail for example - that a typical web host wouldn't even find out.

3] Any advice on a suitable web host? Yes I could email them individually with the spec'- but this might be quicker.

xxdemexx

It is only considered spam if you DO NOT include contact Details

Theres a few different types of SPAM i would say, the somewhat wanted and the needless.

The type you would send would likey be considered 'somewhat wanted' as it may beneift the group. However, they may not see it that way.

I dont know many web hosts who would have a problem with what you want to do, unless one or more of the people you email contact your host about SPAM Abuse.

When in doubt, ask the web host yourself.

Thanks for the answers .. some good points raised..

I contacted a few web hosts and have been deafened by the lack of response... maybe it's a weekend problem or maybe it's just a little to close to spam for comfort for some so they're thinking about it.

My guess is that some hosts outside the States/Europe will be prepared to do it. I suppose that by asking the question before I take out a contract they become more liable and certainly would have less of a case to blame and ban me.
I'll keep you posted

xxDemexx

In addition to SpyModem's answer, the main thing the web host would be interested in is exactly HOW you got these email lists... That is what differentiates between Spam and Not-Spam. If you got them from each person personally, definitley not spam. If you bought the list, its spam.

If you got the list by going through business cards, email messages in your archive of people you have communicated with, etc, I wouldn't call it spam...

Different countries have different laws regarding SPAM; generally a rule of thumb:

- If the person Opted In to your mailing list its not SPAM
- If they didn't ask for it, its SPAM.

I think you may want to ask your host if its OK to send 3000 e-mails thru their mail server. I've seen an Mdaemon 4 mail server running on NT 4.0 crash under heavy load from mass mailing.

If you host or ISP is using outdated hardware and everyone send such large quantities of e-mai it could cause them more technical problems rather than ethical ones.

Also, most web hosts don't actually allow you to send out email - they only provide your incomming email services (POP.) You should always use your ISP for outgoing mail (SMTP) services.

This is to ensure that there are no incidents of spam or not spam - the host just doesn't allow email out. Web Hosts have different points of view on this:

1) Many web hosts are resellers and take on the view of their upstream provider as they really have no other choice. (Another reason to watch out for and stay away from fly-by-night resellers.)

2) Some web hosts allow you to send outgoing email, using SMTP Authentication (rare, as there are no standards widely implemented and supporting.)

3) Some web hosts allow you to send email for three minutes after checking your email by pop - this allows them to authenticate you to send email (if you could successfully check your email) and they time it out after three minutes (or x minutes...)

4) Some web hosts do not allow any outgoing email at all, except that from the mail server itself.

5) Other hosts run open mail relays. This is very rare today, there are a lot of systems to blacklist proviers running open relays, which puts the owness on to the providers to make sure they do not run an open relay (or they have a lot of hassle with spammers.) Open relays allow anyone to send email.


As for the comment about sending three thousand email messages - If your sending this through a Microsoft based email server, I would ask first - that is a lot for MS software to handle.

If your sending this amount of email through qmail on a unix system, I doubt anyone would even notice. I've run email servers handling mailing lists that process over 50,000 messages per day and run with very low extra load on the server. I wouldn't trust that type of load to an MS system though, as mentioned even 3,000 messages could easily crash MS software.


Anyway, end ranting... In the end you'll probably be asking your ISP if you can send that amount of email. That or finding a web host that allows you to send outgoing email. We only offer it on our high-level packages.

Thanks for all the thorough replies -Refcom in particular. I've yet to get any response from any web host I've contacted (they were short listed because they offered Mailing list facilities mediated by SMTP - on Unix.) Mojo Mail can be set up to issue a couple of emails a minute. Although it would take a couple of days (notwithstanding a server down) I can't see any Unix based server being too badly compromised by this.

I created the list using techniques both 'established' and novel (a harvester and cleaner I wrote myself) - the information is drawn from the Web. Most of the scientists involved would, I think, respect being informed of the site and I have 'communicated' with many of them one way or the other of the last 15 years; It is the possibility of two or three Anti-Spam zeolets which is of concern.

Two opt-in based email lists (obviously different names ) got a 5-10% registration success with the web site advertised.

I'm still chasing web hosts...

Thanks again for all the information.......
xxDemexx

5-10% sounds pretty reasonable. In your hunt for a web host I wouldn't go directly after those listing the services you are requesting... I would personally go after the ones that look like good established companies that will deal with your account on a personal basis and set up the services you require for you. Most will do this, as long as they are not resellers and have no control over their servers, for minimal fee if any at all (especially if you're going to order an account >$20/month.)

We do not offer ezmlm mailing lists - but we do set them up for those customers of ours who request them on a case by case basis, we need to evaluate their use for them first.

Also, your first email to this list should be short and simple - to the point:

>>>
Hello, I have obtained your address by _______ and would like to show you the following web site which I am sure will interest you as you are in the _____ scientific community in our region.

If you would like to continue to receive email from me and remain subscribed to this list (about x messages/week, all pertaining to the _____ community) please use this link:

http://www.website.com/authorize_subscription?addr=$emailaddress

If you just wish to check the site out first and subscribe later, this link goes directly to our web site.
http://www.website.com/

If you do not reply to this message OR click on the first link listed above, you will receive no future mailings on our list. You may contact me personally at the following address or phone number:

____________

Thank you very much for your time.... etc.
>>>


With an initial seeding message like this you are ensuring that the subscriber base will not produce any spam complaints after your initial message out. You will also help to stop people form complaining becuase you are explaining how you got their address, how to not reply and never receive another message from you, and how to contact you personally.

Of course, setting up a link like that to authorize based the web or based on a reply to the message would be something you would have to get custom developed - its probably an hour's worth of coding work for yourself or another professional.

Let me know how things turn out for you, you can keep in touch with me at travis@referable.com. I am unsubscribing from this thread after this message.

Well put RefCom. I agree on the welcome email part ... if done properly it will help eliminate any spam complaints from those you've emailed (spam complaints being one of the main reasons your web host would start viewing your mass emails as spam).

Most virtual hosting accounts will only let you send out 300 emails per day. This is because the mail spool can get flooded. Check the TOS before you send out mail.