I have an idea about buying a T1 line for an apartment complex, placing a server and using this as a marketing tool to bring in new tennants. Instead of each tennant having to spend X amount per month on their own dialup, why not share a partial or full T1 and put up a wireless network in the apartment complex. Can anyone think as to why this might be illegal, too complex or unethical. I think it might help to establish a precedent in future apartment construction. i.e. not wireless networks, but wired. Either way, maybe im in the wrong forum but hopefully someone might have thought of this before, explored and found out problems.

One big issue I see is a huge security risk. Wireless is all cool and good, but it is a very huge security hazard, as it is easy to interrupt the transmission. I think that would be cool, but you need to build a lan between all of your apartments. Do know that once you get a bunch of people on that T1, it will become saturated. I suggest selling it very cheap to them, like $10 or $20 a month, nothing to buy, etc.. You can then setup a jack in all the apartments so they just need a nic card and they have access to your network.

Curtis

I think there could be a liability issue too.

If you provide a net connection and some tennant does something illegal (like a scam or chain letter or threats) or someone just thinks a tennant did something illegal, I wouldn't be surprised if you as the land lord are named in the suit for having provided the net access.

It's a crazy world we live in these days.

Eventually, we can see internet access in apartments the same as providided other utilities like electricity and water and it will become standard.

However, you have got the risk of paying for a T1 while apartments are empty and people may not want or resent paying the extra for it.

also, who is going to provide support for it ?

I reckon you could start a company that specialises in apartment complex internet access. The company would provide a standard router, and standard cabling etc. and standard documentation and a central support line. Property owners or builders would call company in to install the system and maintain from then onwards at a fixed fee. It could work, so long as people get used to idea of a fixed fee whether they use it or not. I would think though, integration with cable or something would be important since people will end up paying for cable to be installed anyway.

Maybe the secret of success would be to tie up with cable companies but then they offer this service anyway.

hmmm.... gone round in circles here !

The idea is:

Provide internet sevice as part of the rent, same as some apartments provide cable or all utilities. As far as the NIC card goes, the 15 bucks wouldn't be very much in comparison to what the apartment could raise their rates. If the apartment gave the access as part of rent, Do you think anyone would try and barter their rent with the landlord? Or would it just be accepted?

As far as liabilities are concerned, Would the liability be any different from any other host on the Net? If someone pays for an ISP dial up and then spreads a worm or breaks into something, is the ISP responsible? I don't actually know.

The security issue is a bit more on the technical side that I don't know about. Is the 802.11b protocol not very secure? Or is it that anyone in the area can receive the messages? Is this why these wireless networks are not exploding onto the market?

Lastly the support issue. Hardware, software and support would be where I (or my proposed company) would come into play. We would provide the hardware, the tech support and the script to configure network services. Each complex would have to pay a fixed monthly fee in addition to what they have to cover to the Telco.

Is this a feasible, strategic company? Any thoughts? Probably the niche that no one has really looked into all that closely. When people start expecting high speed access, the internet will truly become faster for all....

The reason why wirless hasn't exploded, is because it is AIRBORN. The transmission can be intercepted. Not like if you are going through a cable medium, you can't, but wireless, yes. There isn't anything between the sender and receiver.

HTH

I don't believe there would be such a liability. I would expect the end user to be responsible for their computer - perhaps with the help of your "provider company" e.g. recommend a firewall/virus checker.



The 802.11b is not secure. There is apparantly an increase in "drive by backing" which affects businesses in city centres.
I suspect that no hacker would be too bothered about people in an apartment complex unless a script kiddie thought it would be fun to annoy other people in the block by messing with their signal.

It seems that the general recommendation for such networks is to run VPN's through them. I would offer two services to users - one is secure and the other is unsecure (euphemism required here !). Of course, you charge more for secured access.




I like this idea very much. There is a lot of economies of scale to be gained and the secret of success is being able to support people. Everyone is fed up with dealing with their existing telcos trying to get support but if you create this new idea of support focussed to the tennants, then people will like this a lot. economies of scale and a call centre should make this financially sound. I don't even think it is necessary to send people round to visit for new users, only to install the system initially in a block. You can talk new tenants through the setup procedure on the phone.

The economies of scale issue... Lots of possibilities. Does anyone know what the $/user for support is? I would imagine there have been some studies that show what monthly fee per user to support a network are. Do any of you know what the $ figure is? I am putting together a feasability study and need to understand this support requirement. Also, do any of you know of companies that simply provide outsourced tech support for networks? Are they paid on a per user basis? A bandwidth figure or per workstation? If there are whitepapers that anyone knows about and might be able to point me to them, I would greatly appreciate it. Thanks for the posts so far, helping with my research greatly.

I haven't got numbers for this. May have to do a little surfing...
I would imagine that to get someone setup and running would be 0.5 man hour.

For outsourced support, you could try one of two things:

1. There are outsourced technical support companies out there. I believe there is a thread lurking in this forum somewhere and lists companies. These often use cheap, phillipines labour but some are US based. The support cost is done per incident.

2. There must be companies that specialise in general networking but I would expect them to be expensive. We are only talking internet connectivity and connectivity problems. Basic help desk support people can be trained to work through an instruction manual. Second line support would have to be someone technical but there only needs to be one person who can train the others. You could do it yourself if you find the correct person.

I was reading some of the responses and a little shocked that there was a lot of talk about liability and people do not seem to understand who would be liable for what. I was also surprised that people were talking like this was a new concept. I live in Wisconsin and apartment complexes have come with high speed access for the last 7-8 years in our area. You do not need a server nor would it be a good idea. You need a router and 10/100 switch. Wireless would be expensive to deploy as you would need a lot off access points depending on the type of buildings. Security is NOT an issue with wireless if you know what your doing and how to lock it down to specific Ethernet Mac ID's. Support is easy. Purchase a T1 through someone reputable NOT a local ISP as they typically "ride" several customers on the same backbone. We are an SBC enterprise solution provider and can even help you with the quotes and installation. Then you compile internet access contracts releasing you of any/all liability, compile self install Ethernet card installation instructions and a Nic card they can purchase or rent (they are cheap). If a user needs support for ISP install/connectivity you find a local computer store that can make onsite service calls and outsource it too. You charge the end user $60-$70 per hour plus $25 trip charge and make a deal with computer store that charges you $40-$50 and you make a profit on service calls. As far as support for T1 that can be purchased from provider BUT it typically comes with 24/7 support if the circuit goes down. The typical charge for internet access is $29.95 per apartment but depending on how many are in building you can go as high as $49.95-$59.95. If you have any questions please feel free to call or e mail. Depending on the scale of the projects we can handle install and operations of the projects nationwide.

Sincerely,

James Peterson
Field Operations Manager
MainLine IT
830 N 10th #102
Sheboygan, WI 53082
920-803-8110 ex.221#
920-377-0741 Mobile
810-592-7300 FAX

It's one of the reasons. There are a number of security flaws in the protocol, and wherever there are flaws, there are hacker tools created to take advantage of those flaws. AirSnort can guess the encryption password in under a second after it's gathered enough packets to analyze.

But then, there is no security. Even with a wireless network, hackers can bounce laser beams off windows and use sensitive listening devices to engage in 'drive-by hacking'. But, in all honesty, they are far more likely to try and come in the normal way, through your firewall.

Wireless networking is also not cheap and unless you go for the gusto and pay out plenty dinero and have someone spend a lot of time on it, they don't work very well, either.

Just to add wireless networking capability to our household network, so that our laptops could go wireless, required a great many man-hours, and thousands of dollars. Until we got the top of the line Orinoco base station and network cards, the range was as far as the next room, but that was it, and the throughput still isn't as high as promised in the product specs.

One of the major universities in our area runs a wireless network that completely blankets the campus. Secure, high-speed, etc. The fact that this university is MIT may have something to with their success.

It can be done for a complex, but it would be expensive, a good idea for an upscale complex with a beemer in every carport, and a yuppie in every apartment. Not so feasible for a complex that we normal folk live in. You could offer wired standard, and then wireless as an optional upgrade.

But look around, there are number of companies wiring apartment complexes and office buildings around the country (and the world), and should be able to find whitepapers and such about the feasability of doing it in your area. And that will keep you from having to reinvent the wheel.