Hi all.

What billing systems do people recommend for small hosts ?

I'm checking out ISP.com and there seems to be a lot of them.

My requirements are:

1. Interface to it from my site to input new signups.
2. Interface to my merchant of choice
3. Handles invoicing, despatching invoices via email, monthly billing cycles, bill for extras such as extra bandwidth etc.
4. Has an accounts receiverables area to process receipts
5. Based on an open database so that I can write my own apps.
6. MUST BE CHEAP !

Anyone any ideas ?

Cheers

There's two online solution I like the look of:

http://www.modernbill.com/
Modern Bill

http://www.dreamcost.com/?page=shop...a3b3b5c79466e75
Dream Cost

Both store information on the server in MySQL though so as attractive as either solution is, I'm not able to justify the security problems. There's been a few cases lately of hosting companies have their customer databases cracked and I'm rather not join their ranks

It sounds as if you're looking for what I am though. An offline program that your website will just mail information to directly with updates to billing information etc, that will spit out a list at the end of the month that you can feed into a payment gateway. I've ben searching high and low for something that like believe me. As yet, nothing that seems impressive enough to use. I'd like to hear if you find something though! As would many many other people. Billing is a pretty hot topic lately.

Greg Moore

That's exactly what I'm looking for. I'm using Clickbank.com at the moment until something comes up... Let me know if you find anything. I've been looking for almost a year now and still can't find what I'm looking for...

The next best thing might be revecom.com or paypal.com

I wrote ModernBill because I was tired of juggling different accounting packages every month when it can time to run a batch.

Something I'd like to point out:
** Credit Card Security: Yes, it's true, ModernBill does store CC Numbers in a MySQL database. They are each encrypted with a concatenated key derived from client information and a private key entered by the admin. I know this is not secure enough, if a hacker wants it, he/she's going to get it. However, there is no reason that this app can't run offline. That's how we use it.

** I am currently working on a hybrid version that will be an upgrade to ModernBill. It works by storing a unique identifier in the CC field in the MySQL database online. Then when it comes time to run a batch, the current invoices are exported from online to a local machine. You will need to run a local script that will join the Invoices in a batch with the local CC numbers. This is all done offline and requires that your local machine have a web server too. Once you have a batch ready, you can connect to your ISP and process the batch, the databases will be synchronized accordingly.

I am open to any suggestions &/or comments.

Thanks for listening:

Hi, welcome to the forums. I've been checking past your site for a while now waiting for the big opening day. I e-mailed a few billing systems a while back about security and their reply was almost non existant regarding any level of security sad to say. At least Modern Bill looks to be making a serious attempt at it.

I had an idea a while back but wasn't sure how possible it would be. I'll mention it here in case it gives you or anyone else some ideas of your own.

Instead of having information sent to an inbox after someone signs up with their details, it would be great for a sign up area to send the information to an address on the server designated for this information only. Offline there would be a script such as Modern Bill, with a mail system built in. Whenever it was started it would check the mail box on the server, retrieving the information stored there (deleting it when it was downloaded of course), and filing the information into a database locally which the offline version of ModernBill then pulls up whenever you need to check accounts.

The offline program spits out a file when needed that can be fed into a merchant gateway (such as it does now), as well as having the ability to back up the data onto zip disk or whatever. Even better maybe is the ability to set where the database file would be stored so it could be kept on a zip disk for example reducing the chance to losing data to an intrusion of the local machine.

Signup form would be secure of course, maybe use PGP for the mail sending to the local machine. The only real 'hole' I can see is the queue on the server between sign up and when the script downloads the e-mail. The sign up area could also have an option for people to alter their details of their current account online (address, CC number etc). Their account number and password would flag the information for being included in the right account when it was downloaded by the script

So you have what amounts to three parts I suppose..
1. Sign up form (server)
2. Account Interface (locally)
3. Database (removable storage)

which works a little like an online signup form that attaches to a Quickbooks type interface that stores it's data on something that can be locked in a safe.

Now.... to *really* complicate things. You could give the local script the option of uploading parts of the data back to the server, such as plan types, name, dates of billing etc. Essentially any NON- secure elements of the sign up, but enough to give customers some level of feedback on their accounts and give them a sense of being on top of things.

The problem with most packages at the moment is their complexity of offering things that are just not applicable. I think I remember your site saying as much yourself. Optigold springs to mind. While being a pretty amazing package it's also full of things that aren't even remotely important to a hosting company (such as dial up). Third party systems are good, but I'd rather have a higher level of personal knowledge on how that data is being stored.

So.. if there anything that makes sense/sounds interesting in that lot?

Greg Moore

Hi Greg...you've got some really great ideas here!



Thanks and yeah...we are trying to make it as secure as possible, but unfortunately the speed of computers these days doesn't make it any easier.

Here's the scenario we are faced with.

In our system, a 16 digit credit card number becomes...

%B0%3A%DF%EE%E4PO%2Ax%B5%AC%1C%7F%0C%9B%E3

...and is stored in a MySQL db. The CC number is RC4 encrypted with a concatenated key, part of which is NOT stored anywhere on the server. An Admin must enter the key each time he/she adds a new client and also right before running a batch in real-time.

So...how bad does a hacker want your data? If they want it bad enough, there is no stopping them. But, we can make it harder and sometimes too inconvenient to be worth their while.

A few obstacles are: The MySQL username & password, Admin username & password, and if they get that far...you still have unknown key and RC4 encryption to deal with. So how secure are you comfortable with?

The best solution is to maintain the MySQL DB offline. This is the hybrid version I was talking about. The main app and user data is online and can be synchronized with an offline machine right before a batch is needed to be run. We don't have a user signup form because we must encrypt the CC Number with our key before it EVER gets stored in any database. The new form submission is sent to us via PGP email so we are pretty confident in that data being un tampered with.

Again I ask, how secure are you comfortable with?

Unfortunately there is no good answer. We take these risks every day just going to restaurants and giving the waiter your credit card. (my former collage life)

My 2 cents...thanks for listening.

Here is another list:

**That's probably crossing the line Lonny. Feel free to list your page's contents here directly.**

- moderator

Any idea as to how much modernbill costs? We are currently using ubersmith and I must say we are satisfied with the product. Still pretty buggy but I think the guys at Voxel are on the right path with this one. I tried out the demo on modernbill's site, but still was not convinced it is better than ubersmith.

Tier 1: $49.95 One-time Purchase
• Without Auto-Batching or Authnet Integration
• SSL Required to Highly Suggested
• Single User License
• Download & Install 1 Copy on 1 Server (Backup OK)
• Partial Source Code Included
• Free Downloadable Updates & Support for the first 6 months
• Free Access to a Private Tech Support Discussion Board for the first 6 months
• Free Major Domo Subscription to ModernBill Newsletter for the first 6 months


Tier 2: $99.95 One-time Purchase
• Full Product with Auto-Batching plus Authorize.net Integration
• cURL Required if using Authorize.net
• Your Own Authorize.net Account Required to use run_batch script,
however you may export your batch ready for your own processing gateway
• SSL Required
• Single User License
• Download & Install 1 Copy on 1 Server (Backup OK)
• Full Source Code Included
• Free Downloadable Updates & Support for the first 6 months
• Free Access to a Private Tech Support Discussion Board for the first 6 months
• Free Major Domo Subscription to ModernBill Newsletter for the first 6 months


Tier 3: Please contact us for details.
• Full Product with / without Authorize.net
• X User License(s)
• Partial Source Code Included
• Free Downloadable Updates & Support for the first 6 months
• Free Access to a Private Tech Support Discussion Board for the first 6 months
• Free Major Domo Subscription to ModernBill Newsletter for the first 6 months


Installation: Add $29.95 Per Installation
• Required MySQL, PHP4, cURL for Authorize.net
• Telnet Access Required
• SSL Highly Suggested


Extended Support: Add $14.95 Per 6 months
• Access to a Private Tech Support Discussion Board
• Major Domo Subscription to ModernBill Newsletter

Your prices are pretty good....if they are really one time purchase prices. We currently pay more for ubersmith, so tell me what about modernbill is better than ubersmith or what about it even brings yours and theirs to thesame level. Basicall convince me you are better.

Here's the scoop ... Why ModernBill? ...

We started out small like most web design/hosting companies, mainly hosting the web sites we built. Over the years (since '99)...those few web sites grew into many and also included lots of friends and family. It got to the point that managing the billing and accounting portion of our business was a real bear once a month, not to mention keeping up with who paid and who didn't!

So we started looking to see if there were any good billing solutions available that met the unique needs of our business....and we were surprised to find that there weren't many to choose from.

The first one that caught our eye was CMBS (FREE), which I think everyone has tried at one point or another. But in order to use it and link it to Authorize.net, required way more time and effort than we were willing to give not to mention the cosmetic aspect... yuck...I spent more time tweaking the display than actually trying to get it to work.

So we figured FREE was not the way to go and we looked at a few other solutions...dreamcost & ubersmith...

Dreamcost looked promising, but when we tried to contact the owners to explain how they handled credit card numbers stored in mysql databases, we were less than satisfied and the online demo didn't provide much insight into the program. $99 bucks seemed ok, but we would still need to do some major mods in order for it to meet our needs. (Note...since we created ModernBill and our CC encryption routine, I find it funny that they too have done the same...just an FYI...)

Then there was Ubersmith, CBMS's big brother. I must say, I like what they did with it, but if it is anything like CBMS's database model, it too would not be sufficient. Also, because they must host the app, that meant that we would never have complete control over the look and feel or even be able to change some of the underlying logic to adapt to our business....not to mention $99 bucks per month...ouch...I think they have a great product, but we could not afford the sticker shock for what we would get.

Now that leads us back to square one....with nothing more that excel and QuickBooks....a pretty good combination if you know how to use them just right....but far from adequate if you wish to grow. We started scratching out a design for a system of our own, it would soon be called ModernBill.

I designed our database to be flexible and I built the system from the ground up using our reseller model as the basis for the underlying logic. We buy our hosting at cost, and resell it to our clients, billing & invoicing them monthly. We wanted the ability to allow our clients to login and pay for an invoice if they wanted too....so we added that feature....we wanted to be able to auto-batch our credit card clients each month, so we added that feature. It's great when you design and build your own, because the sky is the limit. We added the features we wanted and were even able to add a few requests, such as multi-language support, custom themes support, foreign currency support, and lots more...But we aren't stopping there. We have plans for a more robust emailing system and many people have suggested a client support manager and support for more payment gateways like sfcommerce...so hey...why not....we control the code, if there is a demand, we'll come up with the supply....everyone wins.

Pricing...well that’s another story, we definitely won't be giving our product away, but we also do not believe in making people pay an arm and a leg for it either. So we offer it in two tiers, basically with or without auto-batching features. We believe the price is fair because we would pay it ourselves and that helps support our efforts. It is a true one-time purchase at this time, which includes free updates and support for 6 months...at which point, you can go it alone or renew for another 6 months at $14.95. I won't lie to you, the renewals is what will keep us developing this app and continually adding new features and incorporating clients requests...its all about supply and demand, if the demand is there....we are more than willing to be the supplier.

Well I thought this was going to be short...but I guess I went out on a tangent or two...anyway, the choice is yours and currently there are only a few to choose from. I can't make you decide which is better, ours vs. theirs, that is up to you and your pocketbook.

Thanks for listening...that's my 2 cents...